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<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="1024" height="684" src="https://lifewithfirepodcast-assets.storage.googleapis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13165158/Kelly-Martin-DAK2279-1024x684-1.jpeg" alt="" class="wp-image-339" srcset="https://lifewithfirepodcast-assets.storage.googleapis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13165158/Kelly-Martin-DAK2279-1024x684-1.jpeg 1024w, https://lifewithfirepodcast-assets.storage.googleapis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13165158/Kelly-Martin-DAK2279-1024x684-1-300x200.jpeg 300w, https://lifewithfirepodcast-assets.storage.googleapis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/13165158/Kelly-Martin-DAK2279-1024x684-1-768x513.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px" /></figure>



The Wildfire Mitigation and Management Commission, established in 2022 at the behest of Congress following the 2021 Infrastructure Act, recently released a substantial <a href="https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/wfmmc-final-report-09-2023.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">report</a> highlighting recommendations that will shape the future of wildfire policy and action in the US. Fifty commission members were charged with creating the recommendations, one of which was Kelly Martin—who is a founding member of the Grassroots Wildland Firefighter organization and a longtime wildland firefighter. We had the chance to chat with Kelly about the commission, and she was able to provide us a glimpse into the process and efforts behind their whopping 340-page report. We spoke explicitly about how the recommendations relate to wildland firefighters, as well as what Kelly was able to bring to the commission with her extensive background working in wildland fire operations.



We&#8217;re hoping to release a few more episodes about the commission report, which will focus on other recommendations and themes—including community resilience/adaptation, Indigenous burning and scaling up projects that reduce wildfire risk. Stay tuned!



Kelly is an outspoke advocate for wildland firefighters through her work at <a href="https://www.grassrootswildlandfirefighters.com/">Grassroots Wildland Firefighters</a>, which you should definitely check out if you haven&#8217;t already.&nbsp;



This episode is brought to you by <a href="https://www.mysteryranch.com/">Mystery Ranch</a>, which makes the best fire pack in the business—we will die on this hill! If you&#8217;re looking for a fire pack (or a backpacking pack, or a briefcase, or a hunting pack, or a&#8230;well you get it), then Mystery Ranch is the place to go. You&#8217;ll probably never have to buy a pack again!

The Wildfire Commission Report with Kelly Martin

You&#8217;ve probably heard of Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) but how about Traditional Ecological *Practices*?



In this episode, we spoke with Dr. Melinda Adams of the N’dee San Carlos Apache Tribe about translating Indigenous knowledge into Indigenous-led action—which means giving Indigenous practitioners the &#8220;space, opportunity and action&#8221; to see their knowledge systems play out on the landscape. We spoke about a whole lot more than that, though; we heard about Dr. Adams&#8217; PhD work at UC-Davis, about her new assistant professor position at the University of Kansas, about &#8220;rematriating&#8221; fire (bringing &nbsp;women back into cultural fire decision making) and generally bringing more humility into the use of fire. We also spoke at length about her recent paper titled&nbsp;<a href="https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/eco.2022.0085">&#8220;Solastalgia to Soliphilia: Cultural Fire, Climate Change, and Indigenous Healing,&#8221;&nbsp;</a>which she co-authored with Erica Tom and Chairman Ron Goode of the North Fork Mono Tribe (who coined the term &#8220;Traditional Ecological Practices&#8221;).



A bit more about Melinda: As a fire scholar, Dr. Adams concentrates on encouraging public participation in prescribed and controlled burns, getting more people fire certified, and placing more Indigenous-led cultural fire to the ground with allies, agencies, and Tribal members— “decolonizing fire” as she describes. She holds a Bachelor of Science from Haskell Indian Nations University (one of thirty-seven tribal colleges located across the United States), her Master of Science from Purdue University, and PhD from the University of California, Davis. Her research focuses on the intersection of ecology, environmental science, environmental policy and Native American studies; through her research and work, she envisions a future where cultural fire is used as a climate adaptation strategy while mitigating the frequency and intensity of catastrophic wildfire.



This is an important episode for those interested in Indigenous knowledge, understanding and practice of land stewardship—including the use of fire—but is absolutely essential for anyone who works in an agency or organization that emphasizes the importance of TEK, and especially for those who recognize a need for a different and more humble approach to fire and active stewardship. &nbsp;



Beyond that, if you&#8217;re looking for an antidote to your climate grief, look no further than this conversation with Melinda. Her energy for the work is incredible, and is bolstered by countless other Indigenous practitioners and allies who envision a more sustainable, Indigenous-led, community-based future of land stewardship and fire use.&nbsp;



Timestamps:&nbsp;



07:17 &#8211; Introduction



09:42 &#8211; Fire in Tribe&#8217;s Cultural Stories



10:35 &#8211; Soliphilia



12:32 &#8211; California and Tribal Recognition



15:19 &#8211; Healing Powers of Cultural Fire



17:34 &#8211; State Agencies Invited to Cultural Fire Demos



18:37 &#8211; Wildfires and A Lack of Relationship with the Land



21:20 &#8211; Community Education



23:30 &#8211; Generational Protocol and Practices



24:46 &#8211; Traditional Ecological Practices



27:25 &#8211; Melinda&#8217;s Teaching and Her Students&#8217; Focus



31:50 &#8211; The Humble Fire Approach



34:12 &#8211; Learn Homeland History Where You Burn



36:15 &#8211; Caring for the Place You Live



38:28 &#8211; Collaboration with Different Tribes



39:31 &#8211; Storytelling to Translate Scientific Findings



44:02 &#8211; Final Thoughts from Melinda

Humble Fire and Traditional Ecological Practices with Cultural Fire Scholar, Dr. Melinda Adams

Isabeau Ottolini is one of the foremost experts on imbuing risk communications with values that are informed by communities themselves. As a PhD candidate on community-based communications at the Open University of Catalonia in Spain, Isabeau spends a significant amount of time thinking about how we can best reach those most at risk of wildfire&#8217;s impacts, while also allowing those folks to inform how we approach them on this subject.



The ways we talk about wildfire are often highly localized—and dependent on a number of factors like community values, history and available resources. However, the things that make for successful risk communication are largely universal, with mutual respect being chief among the elements of successful communication. This is a primary point of Isabeau&#8217;s: that when we are talking to community members about wildfire or other climate risks, embracing a two-way communication approach (rather than top-down, as she calls it) is essential. In other words, ensuring that you&#8217;re actually listening to the community you&#8217;re attempting to communicate with.



Isabeau is also a current member of PyroLife, which is a PhD training program that supports students across the globe to pursue cross-disciplinary, wildfire-focused research projects. She recently published a paper called&nbsp;<a href="https://openaccess.uoc.edu/bitstream/10609/147845/1/Ottolinietal2023.Deliverable_D.17.pdf">&#8220;A toolkit for fostering co-creation and participative community engagement with vulnerable communities at risk,&#8221;</a>&nbsp;where she expands on many of the topics we cover in this episode—we&#8217;d highly recommend giving it a read.&nbsp;



Timestamps:&nbsp;



05:36 &#8211; Introduction



06:51 &#8211; Interest in Wildfires



09:05 &#8211; Community Collaboration Over Expert Dictation



10:36 &#8211; Community Experience as Starting Point



11:35 &#8211; Limitations of Wildfire Communication



15:07 &#8211; Spain vs. US Wildfire Management and Communications



17:43 &#8211; Communication as Top Priority



18:23 &#8211; Leveraging Social Media Platforms



19:38 &#8211; Tips for the Upcoming Wildfire Season



23:09 &#8211; Future of Wildfire Prevention Gaps



24:50 &#8211; Complexity of Wildfire Management

Community-Informed Wildfire Communications, With Isabeau Ottolini

We&#8217;re big fans of the <a href="https://mtadamsstewards.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Mt. Adams Resource Stewards</a> here at Life with Fire. You may recall our episode with the organization&#8217;s Executive Director, Jay McLaughlin, back in 2022 (<a href="https://lifewithfirepodcast.com/episodes/creating-connections-through-community-forests-with-jay-mclaughlin" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">episode 28</a>), but we&#8217;re back today with an episode with MARS&#8217; Stewardship Crew Lead, Lucas King, who shared his thoughts on expanding capacity for more burning and fuels reduction from the ground up in Washington State. 



Lucas and Amanda spoke about expanding capacity for (and acceptance of) local burning in MARS&#8217; backyard—primarily through private lands burning and engaging community members through contractual opportunities and the Stewardship Crew itself. They also spoke about the <a href="https://www.canva.com/design/DAFaCLluyHs/view" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Washington State Certified Burn Manager Program</a>, engaging recreationists in the act of fuel reduction and land stewardship and a number of other topics, as well as what the stewardship crew has been up to this spring and summer. 



Speaking of expanding capacity for prescribed burning in Washington State—have you heard about the two TREX events taking place in Washington this fall? <a href="http://waprescribedfire.org/trex" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">The Selkirk and Gorge TREX events</a> are accepting applications for a few more days (July 17th is the deadline), so if you&#8217;re available and interested, be sure to apply asap!

Expanding Prescribed Fire Capacity in Washington State, with Lucas King

What can life after wildland firefighting look like? With the issues facing wildland firefighters these days (including but not limited to: abysmal pay, nonexistent benefits and perpetually being let down by elected officials who suggest they might actually do something about it etc) many in this essential but overworked workforce are likely considering that question themselves.



After asking himself that question for years, today&#8217;s guest Luke Mayfield finally got his answer in 2019, when he left his job as a hotshot captain to see what life outside of operational fire was all about. He now works as the fire program director at Mystery Ranch Backpacks, and is still very much involved the fire community—both through his policy work at&nbsp;<a href="https://www.grassrootswildlandfirefighters.com/">Grassroots Wildland Firefighters</a>&nbsp;and as an emergency fill-in for hotshot crews for the last four summers. He&#8217;s also spent some time this spring talking to hotshot crews about mental health and general wellness during the fire season, which are topics that he&#8217;s well-versed in after 18 years in fire.



This episode isn&#8217;t just for the firefighters out there, though. It&#8217;s increasingly important that folks outside of the fire community better understand the challenges firefighters are facing, and take advantage of advocacy opportunities at the state and federal level. Much of those opportunities for advocacy, in fact, are rooted in Luke&#8217;s work with Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.



Luke was a founding member of Grassroots back in 2019 after recognizing a need for more lobbying power/legislative presence on the part of the wildland fire community, which had historically been left out of the conversation at the policy level and, thus, often in the media and greater public consciousness. If you&#8217;re looking for a way to support the wildland firefighters in your life or community, supporting the work of Grassroots is a great place to start.



Huge thanks to Luke for coming on the show, and an equally huge thanks to Mystery Ranch Backpacks for supporting Life with Fire over the years. We have a fancy new affiliate link program with MR and thought we&#8217;d highlight their man purse (aka Murse), <a rel="noreferrer noopener" href="https://bit.ly/42CyyN6" data-type="URL" data-id="https://bit.ly/42CyyN6" target="_blank">which is like the Bugatti of man-purses</a>. &nbsp;



TW: &nbsp;Mental health challenges and suicidal ideation are discussed briefly in this episode.&nbsp;

Life after Wildland Firefighting with Luke Mayfield

Life with Fire Podcast

Life with Fire Podcast

Episodes

Ep. 56—The Wildfire Commission Report with Kelly Martin

Ep. 55—Humble Fire and Traditional Ecological Practices with Cultural Fire Scholar, Dr. Melinda Adams

Ep. 54—Community-Informed Wildfire Communications, With Isabeau Ottolini

Ep. 53—Expanding Prescribed Fire Capacity in Washington State, with Lucas King

Ep. 52—Life after Wildland Firefighting with Luke Mayfield

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